CCP Vs. EvE Uni

So over on Reddit there’s a link to a thread on the EvE Uni forums where CCP Basically crushes Kelduum and company over some suspected botting by a former member.

TL;DR of events to date

CCP Temp-bans a EvE Uni guy over a program that looks illegal from CCP’s side but may or may not have been illegal.

Player very politely flips his shit and gives Kelduum “His stuff”  to include a measily 317 billion isk.  With a B

Kelduum then takes the step of partitioning off that isk and petitioning CCP, who promptly takes said isk and more or less slams the door in his face when he presses for answers.

All petitions opened by Kelduum are answered by the same guy, and basically consist of him blowing off Kelduum

Some tin-foil hattery abounds and the forum thread quickly descends into the full blown lead skullcap land of lawsuits.

I’m not gonna talk about the event.  I’m going to talk about a couple of related issues.

Number one:  Kelduum is both a CSM rep, with a VERY large and motivated base of players behind him, who has literally done no wrong in this instance.  This isn’t CCP punishing The Mittani for being drunkenly stupid, this is CCP stupidly sideswiping a guy who was trying to do the right thing, and then not having A) the decency to tell him why and B) not giving him a chance to talk it over with anyone other than the original GM.

I have been very lucky in my communication with the GM teams.  While I may not have always liked the final response, I certainly felt that I had at least enough information to figure out what DID happen.  That is:  Very few of my petitions have ended with “The logs show nothing” (Which CCP should fire GM’s for using btw)

Kelduum was not so lucky, his petitions got taken prisoner by one GM which seems especially idiotic being that it seems patently obvious that this guy has other channels to reach.  It makes it look like the GM is being unreasonable when all he’d have to do is bring in a third party either an investigative person or just a senior GM to say “We have looked at this from other departments and are doing XYZ because of ABC.”  Right now this GM looks like he’s just being a neckbeard picking off all the petitions and ignoring them.  Whether or not that’s what is actually happening.

Number Two:  At what point does a corporation or alliance leader go from being a random third party and go to being someone actually involved in the process?  I know I filed petitions as a CEO on behalf of several members of my corporation that got rather ignored except for the portions where I myself was directly affected.  CCP can do a great service to itself and to its players by granting them the ability to work with their in-game mentors and leadership in order to resolve issues arising from in-game issues.  There’s a saying among lawyers:  “An attorney who represents himself has a fool for a client.”  It is nearly impossible to be detached and rational about your own loss/weird bug / total confusion regarding the mechanics of EvE and having someone you knows the issues, and mechanics is far more likely to result with a successful resolution of the issue from the side of the player who feels wronged, and the GM can work to communicate effectively with someone who is probably more knowledgeable and less involved.  This is a case where it is clearly in CCP’s interest to work with Kelduum as the alliance leader, to come up with a positive resolution (even if it still means Kelduum doesn’t get the isk)

However the current EULA doesn’t allow for this, and I can see at least some reason to keep the inner workings of the GM crowd private, but the CSM and CCP should look at revising this in the next year, they should look at some kind of program to “share” petitions between a player, the GM group, and designated folks withing that player’s corp/alliance to facilitate useful solutions.  Because what EvE needs is MORE lawyers.  Of course if this happens I am totally hanging up my shingle as a petition advocate.

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About Corelin

An Eve playing Fool who occasionally writes about the shenanigans he and his minions get up to.

Posted on February 11, 2013, in CSM Hijinks, Meta. Bookmark the permalink. 5 Comments.

  1. Point 1) ties back to EVE Vegas last year. Stillman gave a very nice long presentation about how corps and alliances were potentially going to be “held accountable” for members engaging in botting and/or RMTing. I guess that went through.
    Several alliance/corp wigs got up and asked pointedly how that was going to happen, or what the alliance was expected to do to “police” their own people — esp large alliances like, at the time, -A- (who were shedding the most tears) but also Gewns and TESTes, who had a sizeable delegation present, and obv the most sizeable alliances in the game.
    E-Uni would also fit that bill, “large alliance too large to police itself”, at least without some VERY strong API tools, and even then it’d be a full-time “counter-intel” type job.

    Stillman never could give any definitive answer to HOW it was going to happen, or WHAT alliances were expected to do.

    As for lawsuits….fucking really? Well, I guess then anything bought with ISK acquired by PLEX sales now has an actual real-world dollar-value. I knew killboards including “estimated real cash value” was a BAD fucking idea that I strongly disagreed with, and now we see why…

    • Which also spins back to Point 2) where having people in the alliance working on Petitions for the clueless guys can *really* help things out.

      To be fair Kelduum did quash the lawsuits thing hard, but to me that word is a clear indication that someone hasn’t bothered to read the EULA/TOS and has no idea what they are talking about.

  2. There is a good reason why you can’t petition on behalf of other player. That player is maybe not honest with you or outright lie to you and the GM gets into the cross-fire. By his answers he can reveal information to you that the other player has hidden.

    Example: guy steals corp stuff and claim he wasn’t online for a week and has no idea what happened. You petition it, what shall the GM do?

  3. At this point, Euni wasn’t a third party, as the isk was in their wallet when it was petitioned and removed. That makes them involved and deserving of some my answers in my book.

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