Shaving it Close

A recent “Feature” of changes discovered by some intrepid explorers and confirmed by numerous POS bashers and gankers is that SMAs, and large containers are simply not dropping big cargo.  Fozzie says (and I quote)

I think I can clarify a few things.

When it changed to its current behavior that change was made intentionally for performance reasons. Therefore it is not a “bug”, but that doesn’t mean it will always stay the way it is now either.
When something is considered “working as intended” that doesn’t mean we’re happy with every aspect of the design, but it does mean that there is a reason for the status quo.

We are aware of the significant downsides to the current mechanic and we’re not married to the current design for SMA destruction but we can’t promise anything specific about it at this time.

The GMs were not mistaken in their communication on this issue.

So let me take a look to see how this is playing out economically.  Traditionally, successful POS bashes could offer a wealth of loot to the victor, ditto for big freighter ganks.  Wealth was destroyed, but it was also redistributed.  Now I’m not talking about wealth redistribution in a political sense, but in a military sense, that is, to the victors go the spoils.  This keeps a large amount of goods in circulation and, while there is upward pressure on prices due to increased demand to replace destroyed goods, it is somewhat counteracted by the spoils of war being collected.  Pretty good for players not currently having POS towers blown up.

Now the victors get the parking place on the moon, some loot from the small end of the table, and not a lot else.  No shiny ships, no big packages of items, just… siftings of the debris.  Not exactly inspiring loot to be honest.  So what is happening?  Goods are being destroyed.  That is: removed from the economy.  Permanently.  Even as the demand increases a bit because both sides will have expended ships, POS modules, and munitions in the destruction of the towers.  This increases prices, and does so at a sharper rate.  This means more rewards for people mining, manufacturing, and trading.

Fozzie has said this isn’t the end-state.  He sees tweaking happening, but I don’t think we will end up back where we started.  I think CCP wants to see how much they can limit the loot drop without completely removing the incentive part of WH clearance for fun and profit.   He wants things to be destroyed more.  He wants there to be less reward for the shooters, and more for the miners, manufacturers and traders.  He wants them to play more, to profit more, and to create more (and, incidentally, to plant more sticks to get blown up.)  THIS, however requires people to want to blow the sticks up, so there will be some adjustments made to see just how little candy the piñatas can drop before people stop whacking them with sticks.  I suspect loot will drop a little more, and little more, until he sees a better mix of people bashing, and third parties profiting and playing more.  I’m not sure how they will measure this, but I clearly see CCPs profit motive in reducing the profitability to the players of bashing POS towers and ganking freighters.

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About Corelin

An Eve playing Fool who occasionally writes about the shenanigans he and his minions get up to.

Posted on June 27, 2013, in CCP Hijinx, PvP, Things I think I think. Bookmark the permalink. 5 Comments.

  1. Honestly I don’t think limiting loot drops and encouraging industry from POSes in WH’s was the intent of this change. If you read further in the thread Fozzie posts clarifying that this change was to prevent a bug exploit and was the lesser of two evils. With the complexity of the item database management, and how it took them years to get the current new item UI it was probably just more cost effective for them to make this sacrifice. This is a serious blow to wormhole eviction corps as this results in a loss of almost all financial incentives to evict a POS.

  2. TL;DR The sole substantial conflict driver strong enough to provoke real wh evasions just disappeared. This decreases the fun of w-space, for the invaders and the invadees and lessens the game. Invadees fun is decreased because, while getting evicted sucks, the tension and excitement you feel every day in w-space is the result of the fear of eviction, if invasions become largely a thing of the past the tension decreases and living in w-space just becomes weird deep null sec for carebears with probe launchers.

    I’m in wh merc alliance. We do three kinds of invasions.

    1: Paid eviction. Loot from the tower is not a motivation, frequently it’s split with the client hiring us, or they get it all, or it is counted as part of their payment. This screws the client a bit but most of them pay with liquid isk anyway. This is not a big conflict driver. I love being a merc, but there are not very many clients. It’s good isk when you can get it, and it’s a riot, but 90% of the income is from running sleepers or gas or random shit, not contracts.

    2: For the “lulz”/ to pad the killboard/dislike of the occupants. Sometimes you find a c1 with 14 towers, 10 faction 4 regular and you think “wouldn’t it be funny if we built two moros’s in this c1 and put 20b on the killboard?” This is a once a year adventure, maybe once every two years. Not a significant conflcit driver. Likewise a fullblown eviction for the lulz is rare because it’s painful to do, requires a good group of people to spend a week scouting and more people to spend their weekend staring at a bubbled tower before bashing it afk with oracles. Not fun unless there is some external reason, relatively rare.

    3: Stupid Rich People: We find a tower with rich idiots in it. Maybe some intel says they have BPO’s in the tower or we see a c1/2/3 with multiple caps and faction towers and all the modules needed for t3 production and think “Hey wouldn’t it be nice if we got 50% of that stuff?”. Maybe you see them running sites with faction battleships but their corp has 5 members and we’ve seen them sitting in towers hopping in and out of faction ships with different names (implying that even if we kill all of them in faction ships some will be leftover to take). The odds of this happening now are zero, none, zilch. The loot isn’t why we did it but I’ll be fucked if I’m going through the hassle of bashing a tower, rage-caging it, camping the exits, alarm-clocking to prevent escapes, convincing aussie friends to spend their time camping so I can collect the dribbles.

    WHAT THE FUCK. CCP wants conflict drivers? They claim to. This kind of shit drives me crazy. Rich idiots living in w-space used to provide a conflict driver, a good one. Maybe once a month someone was camping or invading or bashing some rich idiots tower to take 50% of their nice things. Now? Why bother. Back in the day if you could do the setup and the maybe even the reinforce with a handful of people and only bring the big fleet in for the final battle their could be a good payout for everyone. In one, exceptional, case I think we ended up with 9 billion in loot off a c5. Now, we’d have got a few hundred million tops. Conflict driver gone, no reason to fight. It leaves only superficial reasons to invade someone, they piss you off or you’re bored, otherwise you just carebear or have a little fight on a wh and roll it. One of the best things about w-space was the playing for pinkslip nature of invasions, now, not so much.

  3. (1) what, …bug exploit…? If it has been prevented, can we has details?

    @Justin, I too am in an Anoikis Merc Alliance and I basically agree with your opinions… Our daily bread is Sites ISK and the schmear is; #1 paid Merc Ops and (not so much now) #2 Loot from Merc Ops… Unless you have a Judas who can reset POS PW and launch all etc.

    • I know CCP doesn’t comment on Exploits, but ya know what… changing something THIS big demands a full explanation or else you get my paranoid Eastern European Jewish side.

  4. Fozzie said it was preventing bug abuse though this is a shitty solution

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