Secondary Stats part 1: ATR

In the continued trend of elitism in EvE I will now snobbishly look down on the traditional “MUST HAVE” stats of DPS and EHP, while condescendingly admitting that they really do have a place in the game, there is a lot that goes into Effective DPS and actual tank.

I'm qualified for the elite snobbery but I haven't claimed the certificate

First let me talk about Actual Tank Rating.  (ATR) actual tank rating factors in how much you can tank while supported by logistics ships.  Since logistics ships  rep actual hit points, and damage takes away effective hit points (Raw HP / relevant resist rating) a logi is FAR more efficient when repping a ship with good resists.  As much as 5 or 6 times as effective as someone doing damage in common setups, and as much as 10x or more with really specialized fits.

Massive Tank

When building a ship for high end pvp or pve you will almost always be counting on logistics support.  Therefore the best tank is one that plans on having heavy rep support.  The key is finding a balance between having enough EHP to resist the bad guys alpha, and then having the highest resists possible.  Note that the goal is ENOUGH EHP and MAX reists.  n that order.  A lot of EvE fitting concepts will follow the “ENOUGH of A and MAX of B”

Enough of one then MAX the other.

The key now will be quantifying this stat.  They big factors are average resists (base on an omni profile), signature, raw EHP, and speed.  In that order.  EHP will factor in twice, first it does provide the base for this stat, 2nd it provides a modifier based on if it is high enough to resist what I consider a normal onslaught long enough to get repped.  Resists will HEAVILY modify the EHP of a ship, and signature will modify the EHP as well based on how many classes of ships you can sig tank.  Tracking will factor in, but not heavily as it is easily defeated with webs.

First some assumptions:

  1. 100k EHP (after resists and sig factor in) is enough buffer for resists/logistics reps to be the major factor determining your survival
  2. BS guns hit a sig of 400m, Cruisers hit 125m, Frigates hit 40m.
  3. Most high end fleets will be doing omni damage or close enough that we can use it to base our resists off of.
  4. ABs will be on, MWDs will get turned off for determining speed.
  5. No leadership bonuses.  They are nice, good fleets have them, counting on them is foolish.
So lets build an example.
[Hurricane, Hurricane: Small Gang Cane: Insane Cane]

6x 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II (Hail M)
2x 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I (Caldari Navy Fulmination Assault Missile)

X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I
Warp Disruptor II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Medium Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

3x Hobgoblin II
3x Hobgoblin II

This is one of my normal builds.  I use it quite a bit.  Let’s look at some numbers.  (EvE-HQ, max skill pilot)

EHP: 69,169

Resists:  76.2/71.1/74.55/75.14

Signature: 240m

Speed:  182 m/s with MWD off

So lets turn this into one unified defence rating.  Here is where the numbers REALLY start to get ugly so buckle your seatbelts, we are about to do:  MATH!

And not the yummy kind.

Ok first lets see how likely this ship is to get alpha’d.

The formula for modifying target to hit chance by signature is (roughly): (Target Signature Radius / Turret Signature Resolution)^2

So for battleships:  240/400^2 = 36% damage.  Cruisers and below do full damage.

now we aren’t going to just nearly triple the EHP of the hurricane, however some kind of modifier is clearly warranted for this, so for battleship DPS under 1/2 we will divide EHP by 0.7

69169/.7 = 98,812 EHP (modified)

So not getting alpha’d.  Yay.  We would multiply by another 0.7 for dropping cruiser damage to below 50% and another for frigates.  Good luck on frigates by the way.

Now for the fun part.  EHP is already modified by resists, but we need a rating that captures how effective resists are in keeping a ship alive in todays RR-happy environment.  Here’s where the “rating” comes in.  66% resists are base.  Every time you hit a “multiplier” of average resists above 70% (I’ll explain that later) you get a multiplier to your EHP.  This cane doesn’t get one, and its going to get no help on speed either, so its ATR is 99k

Let’s look at something “Shinier”

[Guardian, Small- > Medium Gang Guardian]

Large 'Regard' I Power Projector
Medium 'Regard' I Power Projector
4x Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I
10MN Afterburner II

Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Federation Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

2x Medium Ancillary Current Router I

5x Warrior II

One of my dozen or so guardian fits I’ve played with.

EHP: 51254

Resists:  82.56/86.92/85.18/77.33 = Average resists of around 83%

Signature:  70m

We already know it’s getting the battleship damage mod, this one picks up the cruiser damage one too.

51,254/.7^2 = 104,600

Now for the “Corelin you are CRAZY” part.  Resists are HUGE at this level.  At 66% across the board you have tripled your EHP, at 75% you have quadrupled it, at 80% it’s 5x at 83% it’s 6x.  See how fast things spiral up?  For each multiplier past 66% we are going to add 20% to the EHP.

  • 75% = 20% bonus
  • 80% = 40% bonus
  • 83% = 60% bonus
  • 86% = 80% bonus
  • 88% = 100% bonus
  • 90% = 120% bonus
etc.  If you can get your average resists past 90%, you sir are pro.
so 104,600 * 1.80 = 188,280 or an ATR of  188k factoring in not just the resists, but more importantly their affect on incoming reps.
Let’s look at how these ships will fare, let’s assume they are in a fleet fight and are being attacked by a mixed group of hostiles, doing approximately 10k dps, or a small to medium gang Damage is from a mix of BCs and BS, and is all across the damage spectrum.  The friendly gang has 4 guardians in it, but no leadership bonuses.  Our rough and ready calculation for how much damage the guardian is taking knocks that 10,000 to about 4900 and with the other 3 guardians on the field, they are repping it for 5419.8 DPS.  That guy is going NOWHERE unless there are some jams, neuting, or target painting going on.
The Hurricane is taking about 7000 dps, and is tanking 4781 even with the 4th guardian repping it.
Now obviously we will need to fine-tune this and I welcome any comments or help in doing so, but for a first pass, this looks like a pretty fair approximation of how the mechanics of EvE should affect ship fitting.

What about Major Kong?


About Corelin

An Eve playing Fool who occasionally writes about the shenanigans he and his minions get up to.

Posted on September 13, 2011, in Meta, PvE, PvP, Things You Should Know About. Bookmark the permalink. Leave a comment.

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