The Last Hulkageddon

Hulkageddon is a time-honored event in EvE.  Since 2009 Hulk Ganking has been a part of EvE’s culture, with 2 events in 2010, another in 2011 and this one, possibly the last in 2012.  CCP (Greyscale) is all about making life easy for carebears.  CCP (Greyscale) has battered gankers with constant nerfs over the last few years.  CONCORD gets faster, and more effective.  Players with GCC lose control of their warp drives and can’t board fresh ships limiting them to one attempted gank every 15 minutes.  This means that gankers have to constantly develop new tactics and improve their methodology, while the carebears pretty much enjoy a safer and safer experience.

Of course it hasn’t all gone the way of the ganked.  This year we have two new tools that should ensure some hilarity.  Tier 3 BCs and the upgraded dessies.  An untanked hulk can be ganked by a single Tornado, or 2-3 catalysts VERY easily.  Swarms of arty thrashers will likely make another appearance as well.  In 0.6 and below you should easily get too shots off (maybe in 0.7) and 5 thrashers will tear an untanked hulk to shreds.  An untanked mackinaw will go down even faster.  Heck even a tanked mackinaw in 0.5 is vulnerable.

Now seeing as gankers tend to be more community oriented when it comes to events like this, and we share information whereas most carebears will be ignorant of Hulkageddon even several days into the event, despite enormous amounts of advertising; even though CCP (Greyscale) continues to stack the deck against us we work to improve, and this Hulkageddon will likely be the most successful one yet.  Even with fewer ganks / pilot / hour, even with faster response times, even with all this crap, we will succeed.  That will drive the carebears mad.  Some will respond like I did when my carebearing was interrupted.  Learn to pew.  Some will ragequit.  MANY will forumwhine; and when those forum whines hit CCP Greyscale’s screen…

He does what it tells him to.

He will do something that will surprise everyone even though it should surprise no one.  He will come out with a devblog, or a forum post saying something along the lines of “Since SoniClover came up with the perfect solution to all your highsec PvP needs with wardecs we are going to remove the ability to shoot neutral ships in highsec.  I know you are all real excited about this new era of EvE.  Throw out some wardecs and try out the new system!  You’ll love it!  What are you doing with the torches and pitchforks?  Put me down nonoNoNoNONONONONOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo…….”

CCP has already moved a LONG way to protect it’s carebears.  There’s no reason to believe they wont continue this path.  In 2009 ganks were simple.  Even an utter PvP nub like me could gank a hulk solo in 0.6 space.  Let me suggest some things that hulk pilots could do to protect themselves during this event.

Team up.  Tank your ships, have a friend along in a scimitar providing remote reps.  A gank squad will involve 5-8 toons if they are using dessies.  I’ll make your hulks practically invincible with 5.

3 hulks, fit for tank.  Resists, extenders, all the basic stuff.  Look up the fits.  1 Orca providing leadership bonuses.  MOAR RESISTS!  A scimitar orbiting at 50km with 4 large reppers, ECCM a little bit of tank and reps permarunning on the other 4 ships.

But no.  That’s too hard.  It’s too much to expect people to make the attempt to defend themselves.  They should be able to expect complete safety sitting at 0 in an untanked, expensive, oft-targeted ship during the most heavily advertised event of the EvE year.  Let’s just make CONCORD insta-spawn everywhere, or better yet turn off the gankers’ guns.

So go out and enjoy Hulkageddon.  Really dig into it.  FRAPS it, gank as much as you can as often as you can as long as you can.  Because this is likely to be the last.  We can adapt as much as we want, but we can only do so much when the other side’s “adaptation” consists of whining to receptive Devs.

I'm using it every time I can

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About Corelin

An Eve playing Fool who occasionally writes about the shenanigans he and his minions get up to.

Posted on April 19, 2012, in CCP Hijinx, PvP, Things I think I think. Bookmark the permalink. 29 Comments.

  1. lol forget my original :18months: or even :8months: predictions.
    I’ve moved up my timeline…. :totallysafehisec: in T-minus 3….2…..1…
    lol. <— I only wish it were lulz-worthy.
    In the end the bears will see sweet, sweet PvPer tears…and the death of EVE. Yay them. :-/

    You know, what I really truly don't understand, is how people can actually enjoy the PvE content…let alone SOLO??? Do they not understand that CCP half-asses PvE content to give PvPers a way to make money for more PvP??? I know, stupid question, since they vehemently deny the "PvP nature" of EVE, but still. :-/

    • If it’s CCP’s plan to make hisec fully safe, then it won’t happen. Why? when was the last time CCP successfully executed one of their plans 😛

  2. While I agree that things are fine as is, your idea seems silly. It feeds the alt monster that much more.

    It’s not hard to keep yourself safe from ganks. I’ve been mining and carebearing for over 2 years and I’ve yet to be suicide ganked. You just have to play smart.

    -Don’t mine durring hulkageddon!
    -If a dessy/brutix/tornado warps to your belt, you should probably leave
    -Position yourself outside the asteroid ring to give yourself more time to GTFO
    -Set known gankers/griefer corps to red.

    It just takes a little bit of extra work and time to keep yourself safe in high-sec. Don’t complain to CCP about griefers if you’re not willing to put in the work yoruself.

  3. While I understand where you coming from and EvE PvE can awefully boring activity, I have to disagree with this article completely. Go read Jester’s Hulk tanking ideas and the conclusion that no matter how much you tank it, the hulk will die. Also go read about Gevlon’s mining operations and how it failed because no matter how many combat ships you have to protect your mining ships, they will die first anyway. Miners are not looking for combat and telling them to tank and arm their ships is something that will only make it more interesting for the gankers not more profitable for the miners.
    “Learn to pew” is not an answer either, because who are you to tell people how to play the game they pay for anyway? Sorry, but this post is fail.

    • Actually my scimi suggestion is a direct response to Jester’s post. 1 Rep will give you a 400 DPS tank, that right there will most likely doom the gank. 3 Will give you a 1200 DPS tank removing more than 1 Catalysts damage from the field instantly. In all likelihood a hedgehog like that won’t even get attacked by most gankers. They will look for easier prey. As for Gevlon’s post. Is there a single combat ship on my roster? No. Because Gevlon is right. Gevlon is also talking about nullsec which is nowhere NEAR anything I’m talking about.

      I’m talking about safely mining in a 1.0-0.7 system, during hulkageddon. I’m also talking about CCP chipping away at emergent behavior and the sandbox. You are spouting nonsense and dropping names.

      • So if i do not agree with your opinion I am spouting nonsense? Right.
        There is no such thing as safety in EvE and most miners/bears know it. If CCP is going to change this more power to them, but there will be a big reason for that to happen. Hulkageddon could be one of those reasons, because it could cause in loss of subscriptions and revenue for CCP and HTFU is not going to cut it. Same way as you saying that using a logi fleet to keep Hulks alive is a viable strategy for someone who doesnt’ have time or resources to do that. Bears should be able to play the way they want, and PvPiers should play the way they want. Enforcing one gameplay style on another is not what sandbox is about. Sorry if what I am saying is nonsense to you, but I believe that this is the truth.

      • You not having time or resources is your problem. If you hold a pos on your own it isnt someone elses fault if it gets blown up. Its yours. The same principles apply here. If you dont have the resources to mine safely it isnt my fault. Its yours.

      • I guess this works the same way when rich tell poor people that not having money is their own fault. Right…

      • “There is no such thing as safety in EvE and most miners/bears know it”.
        Actually they don’t know it, by the very definition, a _true_ “carebear” denies the reality of PvP in EVE. They deny that it’s intrinsically a PvP game, and insist to the last that PvP should exist only in low or nullsec, and they should be totally free and safe from worry.
        It’s kind of akin to the psychological phenomena where someone lives in a “nice” neighborhood, and “Why should I lock my doors and windows? Crime doesn’t happen here…” well, until it does. 😉
        Then that same person cries and wonders why it is they were robbed.

        As for being able to play how you want…. well, as long as how you want isn’t at odds with the fundamental scope and idea of the game, that being, EVE is a PvP game with PvE content, then yes, you should. However, what you and other carebears want, is NOT within the fundamental scope of the game as originally imagined and designed. You are attempting to change it to fit what your ideal of things should be, “totallysafehisec”.

        This is the equivalent of walking into a mosque and wanting to convert to Islam, but only if you can still eat bacon.
        Don’t worry, modern religions are “watering themselves down” to appeal to the masses too, why shouldn’t EVE, which is at best a niche cult and hardly a full-on religion? 😉

  4. If you don’t agree with the direction Eve is taking, why don’t you propose an alternate course? I agree with you that people shouldn’t whine when things don’t go their way, but then you appear inconsistent when you whine about CCP and carebears =P Hong whines too but at least he’s making proposals and fights to the bitter end =)

    About miners defending themselves, if you compare the price of the attacking fleet to the defending fleet, it becomes obvious why this is not a viable proposition. The solution is simply to avoid the fights: out of the way systems, not mining in belts, early warning system, etc. Most miners do it already. Yes it’s a different gameplay, but isn’t Eve a sandbox? 😀

    • The ones being smart aren’t the ones who are going who besiege Greyscale in a couple weeks. As for a suggestion… Things don’t need to be changed. I know we wont get a rollback so maybe just keep Greyscale off computers with an internet connection until Hilmar can get back the incriminating pictures that Greyscale uses to keep his job?

      • Developers love change, and trying to stop them is as difficult as damming a river 😛 Which is why I’m advocating focusing on changes that would improve our gameplay. As long as Greyscale is busy refuting our ideas, he’s not busy thinking about his ideas =]

    • It’s not whining, it’s raeg!ing. Get yer facts straight damnit. 😉

      Stay tuned, you may just like the next entry I write, Fluff. >;-D

  5. will be fun and see how Hulkageddon will look like in 4 years time

  6. “Pubbies, defend your mining ops.” PvPers say, which is pure crap.

    You warp a 10 ship fleet to a mining op. It contains an Orca and 10 Hulks, but this time the carebears are, as you suggested, also fielding a 30 ship mix of cruisers, BCs, and tacklers. Now… are you going to attack the defense fleet? Hell no! You’re going to call point and primary on the Hulks and kill as many of them as you can before you all die laughing in a fire… because in PvP the win/loss is based on ISK.

    The ISK math doesn’t change if you have 10, 50 or 100 ships: you kill the Hulks first, period. Why? Because as they’re now ‘defended’ they are most likely fitted for max mining yield and are therefore tank-less, helpless and still just as expensive. If you have 30 ships, you are certainly going to kill the Hulks first, then, if your losses aren’t too heavy, you might point the Orca while you try to kill the defending fleet and, if at all possible, the Orca too. Because each Hulk costs way more than your PvP ships, you can accept those losses with ease… to reiterate, because in PvP the win/loss is based on ISK.

    So for a corp to field not only a mining fleet but also a defense fleet is an untenable option. They are not going to “defend their mining ops,” it would be stupid for them to try to. As it is today, as soon as they see any possible threat to the mining op, it will end, period.

    This is even if a corp or Alliance could get enough of their corpmates to do this. The miners won’t be a problem… they’re out there to make ISK… your Defense Fleet however will be comprised of corpmates who:
    (1) will not make one red ISKie for their time and
    (b) will be bored right out of… fleet.

    “OK,” you say, “So have your Defense guys Rat in system, and if an aggressor fleet comes in, they can warp in and save the day.” Right… no one is going to Rat, in belts or anoms, in PvP fitted ships. Oh how the PvPers would love that… their ‘gank the mining op’ opportunity now becomes a ‘gank the mining AND PvE op!!’ This is not a tactically supportable strategy for any mining corp.

    Oh and the “defend your mining ops” strategy is not put forward to actually help the miners… Does anyone believe for a second that gankers and griefers are going to give mouth breathing carebear pubbies advice that would actually HELP them??? Oh please. It is to give the PvPers moar PvP opportunities and nothing else.

    One last point… If “defend your mining ops” was a viable strategy, it would already be standard practice.

    • What does any of that have to do with anything I had in this post? I’m talking about a few ships to help you resist damage long enough for gankers to kill CONCORD. You are quoting a post about defending mining ops in nullsec.

      • In my post I am paraphrasing Jester’s extremely well written response to the oft repeated “Defend your mining op” PvPbear whine. I did not specify which sec the mining was taking place in, and my response IS directly related to your “…talking about a few ships to help you resist damage long enough for gankers to kill CONCORD…” [I assume you mean for CONCORD to kill the gankers].

        Indie corps simply will not do this as SOP (Std. Operating Procedure). It is, as Jester pointed out, unsupportable and unsustainable… to think otherwise shows a lack of understanding about how Indie corps in EVE work and think. I am not trolling you or disparaging your knowledge of EVE, I am speaking from experience, I know about this in detail as I am currently in the PvE/P branch a long established highly successful Indie corp with ongoing concerns and operations in Hi, Lo and Null. These are the same guys under diff corps who I have known almost as long as I have been ingame.

        They are NOT ever going to use logi or defense fleets or defensively tank their ships. It is not how they work. It is easier, cheaper, moar profitable (in the long run) and sustainable to their memberships to simply safe up and wait out the scout/neut/perceived threat.

        I repeat, if using logi support, defense fleets and/or defensively tanking, was a cost effective, suportable & sustainable option for mining ops… after almost 10 years, IT WOULD BE STANDARD PRACTICE by now. It simply isn’t.

        On your position that “CCP has already moved a LONG way to protect it’s carebears.”.

        I do not agree that CCP (corp, Dropbear et al) actively wants to make EVE non-consensual-PvP free or even just a non-consensual-PvP free Hisec… My ‘fear’ is that this may be forced on them by outside influences, and WHY… IE pressure ‘from’ Sony due to pressure ‘on’ Sony (griefing reports and petitions) from Dusters IF, I repeat “IF”…

        -Dust brings in a lot (read moar than US) of regular (read WoW/Halo/CoD/etc.) FPS/MMO gamers, especially younger gamers… teen and possibly even preteen gamers (my son is 9 and loves CoD);

        -and ‘IF’ EVE’s griefer community is able to figure out ways to scam, grief and gank the Dusters (which I am sure they badly want to)…

        I do not believe this new playerbase will not be as understanding of EVEs ‘harsh and hard’ gaming community or the HTFU attitude towards ‘pubbies,’ ‘carebears’ and a similar obvious growing attitude towards ‘dusters’ or ‘dust bunnies’ (a ‘community’ that does not even actually exist yet).

        I just don’t see Sony being all that complacent and forgiving of the level of griefplay that we all accept and that, to a great degree, makes EVE moar a virtual reality and less ‘just a game’.

        Also, this is not an attack on your playstyle, I love PvP (just not very good at it… yet) it is simply a comment on your post and my opinion as a co-inhabitant of our shared sandbox. I too am concerned about the direction EVE (CCP) is going.

    • We’ve hit the layer on replies so it’s going here.

      Losing multiple hulks in a week because you refuse to adapt is unsustainable.

      Having one guy (or an alt) sitting in an osprey or a scimi or a basi or whatever for a week during hulkageddon? Yeah that isn’t stretching the bounds or realism. I’m not saying do this full time. I’m saying pull your head out of your… sandbox long enough to pay attention to the MASSIVE amounts of publicity Hulkageddon is putting out and protecting yourself. You can put a guy in a logi ship for a week. Or as you say dock up for a week or what have you and avoid it.

      THE PROBLEM IS:

      CCP is listening to the vocal idiots who never read a forum post they don’t make themselves, who don’t pay attention to the reams of advice given by older more experienced players, who don’t do anything to help themselves in the hope that Uncle Greyscale will make it all better. And he has. And the mountain is getting higher, and the anti-social whiners are getting more and more things their way. And I’m tired of it.

  7. This was terrible post.

    It’s still very much possible to gank Hulks in high-sec as in 2006. I killed several of them with T1 fit Brutix just 2 months ago (not all at once, of course). Plus gankers now have extreme tool – Tornado – and you can see that there has been increase in freighter ganks.

    TLDR: don’t panic, nothing has changed.

  8. Sorry, but having a scimi attempt to guard a hulk fleet is a waste of time. Having t2 ship guarding t2 ships to fend off cheap t1 ships doesn’t compute.

    One blackbird and 5 ships die – badly

    the same things happen when incursion fleets are attacked. logis jammed/blown first then lots of expensive ships die quickly. While I laugh at the incursion losses, I don’t at the miners. Incursion pilots are losing PVP ships in PVP actions. The miners are losing civilian ships to military ships.

    Secondly, logistic supported fleets only survive when facing fleets made up of pilots looking to survive. Suicide gankers do not want to survive. They are there to inflict as much pain as possible while dying doing it.

    Miners already need support players (haulers, boosters) where gankers everybody is in an active role.

    What do I advocate changing? CONCORD? nope. hisec rules? nope.

    Gimme a mid-slot module that 1) puts out an unprobable blanket over the grav site that I am sitting in and hides my ships from d-scan. 2) when in belts, that modules decloaks player ships and drops ships out of warp at 200 kms. This module can only be used on Industrial command ship (orca only)

    Can I be ganked? Yup. But now its a challenge.

    get your grav warp in point before I get there and hide it. and prepare to start out at 200 kms when you want to gank me at a belt.

    I know you can do it

    • Most gankers wouldn’t bother to attack the hedgehog I mentioned and you know it. They will just go after the solo guys because easy targets are better. As for your module, Miners don’t need more protection. They’ve got plenty. They need to use the tools that are already available TO THEM, not expect more protection from the system.

  9. Wow, that’s an amazing amount of tears for a non-carebear. Life is so unfair…

    As for this being the last Hulkageddon, I disagree with you. There will always be gankers regardless of how risky it is. The Hulkageddon brand is too valuable to let die. It will evolve; it must. But it will not die. In spirit, it will live on in bitter-vets if nothing else. I can hear the reminiscences now.

    Bitter-vet #1: “You remember when we used to could insta-pop carebears in hi-sec?”
    Bitter-vet #2: “Oh yeah, those were the sweet days of l33tness.”
    Bitter-vet #1: “Damn CCP for ruining our game.”

    Pfffffffft

  10. As Mab points out the griefer tears content of this post is surprisingly high – what with you holding the guns and all. I mean, Hulkageddon hasn’t even started yet and you’re already crying.

    Don’t worry old son, the bears know you’re coming and plenty of ’em will be out looking to milk still moar griefer tears.

  11. Mabrik & Mord: I find it somewhat amusing that carebears spend a lot of time building and riding on some moral “high horse”, yet when someone writes a fairly well-reasoned post like Core’s, you devolve to the level of a Goon: “hurr durr, moar [griefer] tears, hurfblurf.”

    The hypocrisy is so delicious.

    • “…fairly well-reasoned post..” now that’s some grifertears…
      ONLY from the aspect of getting moar ships involved in the mining op for you to gank. It is ALWAYS about the ISK, and you know it.

      IN lief, real or virtual, defensive tactics, strategies and equipment ALWAYS changes and improves, aggressive tactics, strategies and equipment MUST evolve, change and improve in response or fail… nothing stays the same, HTFU and deal with it.

      hurr durr, moar griefertears, hurfblurf… waa waa waa…

  12. It’s always amusing to read “suggestions” on tanking hulks. Amusing, but not informative. Most suggestions come from the angry little ADHD griefers who know less than nothing about indie play. Suggesting that hulks be refit for more tank, is every bit as brainless as suggesting every combat ship should be fit with cargo rigs and all the lows filled with cargo expanders or there is no room for ammo. Of course the glassy eyed griefer crew would rage at such a stunned suggestion, but it’s more than good enough for a ship that wasn’t designed for combat. In the end, a hulk, tanked or not, is gone if some griefers want it gone. Small minds don’t get that. Never will.

    Not everyone plays online games to rage against the injustice of their pathetic existence. Some people play games to relax. Mine, listen to some music. Very enjoyable and peaceful. PVP is fine as a function of the game, but I don’t use it as revenge for what happens in my life. Sad, angry little griefers don’t “get” that either. Never will. Best part? The griefer tears are building. With the trade hub gangs, and then a month of hulkageddon (which I bet won’t be allowed to run for a month), I think the griefer crowd will have screwed themselves and CCP is going to implement even more limits on griefing in highsec. Your king of the losers/griefers is going to screw your “fun” for you, and then there will be oceans of griefer tears. It’ll be awesome. You’ll have probably two choices. Rage quit and go back to UO, or go to anywhere else in the game where other players actually shoot back. OMFG! The little TLDR 4chan/SA/reddit drones will have to HTFU! I’m looking forward to making a shit load of cash selling wildy overpriced dessies, blasters and 280s to the short sighted little griefer throngs. The month of money 😉

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