War Never Changes

It doesn’t.  CCP is releasing it’s next expansion, called Inferno.  One of the major prongs of the Inferno trident is changes to Wardecs.  A while back I talked about several major problems with wardecs, that there’s no real reason for one side to fight, neutrals were still free to join in and rep as much as they wanted, decshields, the interface was clunky as hell, bringing in friends was awkward, and there was no way for the defender to force the war to end early.

Things that got addressed:

  1. Mercs
  2. Interface
  3. Decshields

Things that didn’t get addressed:

  1. No reason to fight
  2. Neutral RR
  3. Defender can’t “win” and force the attackers to withdraw the dec by game mechanics

Now this expansion does a lot to address issues with wardecs, but they are pruning hedges while ignoring the elephant that crushes them.  There is literally no reason for a defender to do anything during a wardec.  If they have a POS at risk they might have to defend that, although if they are smart in how they set it up it should be a PITA to assault and very easy even for weak defenders to keep up.  A highsec-only corp without a POS can just dock up and rely on the higher wardec cost to end the war for them.

Neutral RR.  Crimewatch might affect this, but there’s still no real fix even in the pipe.  At best you can (possibly) confirm who the involved logi was in your lossmails.  People are still free to bring in tons of unaffiliated help with little warning to aid them.

Finally, and related to the first comment, defenders cannot simply “win” and make the wardec go away.  To use an example:  A mission running corporation gets wardecced by griefers.  They band together, come up with good tactics and manage to defeat the griefers in open battle several times, however the griefers leave the dec up hoping to pick off people who are trying to sneak in a mission on their own.  Having some sort of “Domination” bar, where one side or the other can force terms upon the other needs to exist.  Also:  More fun for spies if you get particularly juicy terms.

Oh and individual targets can still skip out on the war.  I want to be able to wardec assholes!  Not wardec a corp and watch the D-bag I really want to hit skip out.

I’m using it every time I can

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About Corelin

An Eve playing Fool who occasionally writes about the shenanigans he and his minions get up to.

Posted on May 21, 2012, in PvP, Things I think I think. Bookmark the permalink. 5 Comments.

  1. I’m curious.
    Have you even read the patch notes?
    Just going to post the important part here:
    Several loopholes for evading wars have been closed:
    If you leave a corporation while the war is on, you cannot re-join until the war is over or 7 days have passed. This does not apply to mutual wars.
    War shedding is no longer possible. Corporations that are at war will continue to be so, regardless of joining or leaving alliances.
    All wars are now public:
    You can view a report of all wars currently active and see how both sides are doing.
    Mercenaries can offer their assistance, at a price, to the defending corporation or alliance.
    Both parties can offer “surrender terms” and attach a price tag if you are a CEO or Director.
    All wars will now have a war report:
    As mentioned this will be public and available to everyone.
    Contains all kills and losses in date order.
    Contains a headline showing the total amount of damage inflicted.
    A Graph is available so you can view wars by ship class.
    Defenders in wars can get help from other corporations or alliances.
    Defenders can flag themselves as seeking aid.
    As stated above, any corporation or alliance can send a formal offer to ally with the defender for a particular war.
    The ally counts as being in war against aggressor and is included in the war report on the defender’s side.
    Kill mails will now be known as kill reports. More details on these changes are available in the Dev Blog, ‘Spaceship Murder Notifications’:
    Updated to have a nice look and feel.
    Visually displays the victims fittings with an option to save it.
    Shows the total amount of money lost by the other player.
    They can now be dragged into chat and mails.

    Sure, the defender can’t just kill 100 ships and ‘Win’ like you put it in your post – But would a griefer corp REALLY want to continue a war dec when they’re horrible record against a hi sec care bear corp is on public display?

    Also – Neutral RR has been addressed with crime watch, if you read patch notes/dev blogs you might know this.

    And why do the defenders need a reason to fight? Chances are they don’t want to fight in the first place, so why would they now want a reason to fight?

    • Have you even read my post?

      Oh yay I forced someone to leave his corp. I don’t want to force him out of his corp I want to blow him up! If I bother going back to wardecs I’m certainly not doing them to force people out of corporations, I’m doing it to blow them up!

      What does any of the “wars are now public” have to do with ANYTHING I mentioned?

      And a griefer corp fighting a a mission running corp can lose 100 ships and make it up on a single pimp-fit Golem if they know it’s around.

      As for Crimewatch: Hasn’t even hit SiSi yet. Every suggestion Greyscale has made has been utterly terrible.

      As for giving the defender a reason to fight: CCP has poured a couple thousand man-hours into wars. It would be nice if people… I dunno… FOUGHT WARS!

  2. “As for giving the defender a reason to fight: CCP has poured a couple thousand man-hours into wars. It would be nice if people… I dunno… FOUGHT WARS!”

    At this point I really just have to question the cost-benefit of continuing to bash our skulls against the brick wall that is carebearism. It’s like pathological narcissism (and the two are probably somehow inter-related) — it’s self-encapsulating and nothing you say or do will change the person’s mind, so it’s about as useful (and excruciating) as bashing one’s head against a wall.

    I’m really kind of done with the whole thing, at this point.

    The sad thing is that guys like the Goons, Pinky & Co, etc, don’t realize that in upping the pressure on Bears, all they’re gonna do is cry all the harder, whine and raeg all the more, dig their lil heels and claws in and fight all the more for their precious “safety” … and give CCP even more reason to make hisec :totallysafe:, and in the end give the Bears exactly what they want.

    The day that happens, a lot of us “ebil PvP” types will quit EVE entirely, and give the bears _even moar_ of what they want. lol. So no matter what, the bears are gonna get what they want, at least if we continue down this path.

    Bluce Ree said that sometimes the best path to defeating an opponent is going along with his own actions, desires, and movements, and finding a way at that critical moment to turn them against him.

  3. NoAstronomer

    To be honest I think you and Hong are both very confused about why war-decs even exist. Though it’s probably easier to state what their purpose is not. The purpose of war-decs is NOT to give players the opportunity to PVP in HiSec.

    If you want to PVP in HiSec that feature already exists and it will cost you a lot less than 50mil. Just buy a bunch of cheap ships and shoot people.

    No, the purpose of war-decs is to enable inter-corporate warfare. Another corp is mining /your/ asteroids? war-dec them! Want to corner the market in Molden Heath and make it your own little niche? War-dec everyone else who comes in!

    “I want to be able to wardec assholes! Not wardec a corp and watch the D-bag I really want to hit skip out.”

    Then gank them and HTFU! You are never going to be able to war-dec an individual. Never.

    Mike.

    • lol No Mike, I get it just fine. And from what I’ve read, _you_ are actually the one who’s dead wrong about the original intent and purpose of wardecs….
      My understanding, and, unlike you I actually acknowledge I might be wrong about this (but I kinda doubt it) is that wardec 1.0 was largely about null and lowsec corps and alliances — allowing them (or mercs hired on their behalf) to wardec each other and prevent them from safely using hisec services, like the “safe” ISK of hisec L4s and complexes, or cheaper prices at the market hubs, etc. A sort of way to “attack the supply lines”.
      Only null/lowsec alliances figured out a solution, and thus was born the “out-of-corp” hauling alt… and others figured out that it could be used against hisec groups for cheap, relatively easy kills and “tear/lulz extraction”.

      Also, I see you haven’t much been following the whole “safer hisec” conversation in general, because “ganking” seems to be an even BIGGER complaint from carebears than the occasional “griefdec” — after all, it apparently has “no” consequences, and “a cheap 2M ISK destroyer shouldn’t be able to kill my 350M ISK Hulk” is a common refrain among bears also.

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