Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger

Some thoughts on the notes:

Ship Balancing:

One thing jumped out at me as I read through the ship re balancing portion of the CSM notes.

CCP Ytterbium went on to share his ideas for the Frigate rebalance. Part of the balancing involves
giving all Frigates more slots – somewhere around ten, with slightly fewer for support ships.

I suspect that this won’t be the last time we see “Re-balancing” meaning “more slots” for some ships.  I think all of the soon-to-be-former Tier 1 and 2 cruisers will be found lacking in this regard.  Making Destoyers, Frigates, and the new mining barges match up in the new paradigm will be all we see for a bit, likely December, and there seems to be a system of “Fast attack, Ganker, Brawler, Support” being set up.  Certainly simplifying the roles of the ships seems a good option, and having clear bonus sets for each SHOULD make it easier for new players to see what ship to pick for whatever it is they want to do.

It also amounts to “Generification” a word I made up to describe making everything more similar to make balancing easier.  Certainly balancing in EvE will NEVER be easy.  CCP always faces a ton of challenges in balancing because the law of unintended consequences will absolutely MURDER you in this game.  You could make a small change to one ship or one weapon system and find that because of the synergy effects of other ships with their equipment you’ve just made another race the FOTM until the nerf bat whacks them.

My concerns tend to lie with the fact that 8-8-8 is the theoretical limit on slots.  Smaller ships can certainly add slots without running into walls, but for larger ships with larger numbers of combinations, balancing by adding presents a problem.  The Dominix is already an excellent ship with a 6-5-7 layout, if they want to balance it for a certain role, what do they do, add a utility high?  Another mid and you will see tons of XL ASB Gank Blaster Domis roaring around doing 1500 DPS.  Add a low and… well… you’ve added a low.  A Celestis on the other had has a (Go ahead, take a guess) 4-5-3 (ARE YOU KIDDING ME?  3 LOWS?) layout.  Even for a support ship this thing looks awful on paper.  Of course if sensor damps become better again they will likely show up, but even then they’ll be utterly gankable.  With < 30k EHP the ship practically begs to be blasted, especially if it starts causing trouble with the logis with its damps.  4 damps on a Celestis can make your guardian take 10+ seconds to lock up a battleship for example.  Think the Celestis will last 10 seconds?

So more slots for smaller ships, which helps them a lot, a possible change to cruisers to make them faster than most BCs.  I’m betting tier 3s are still more or less even with them.

One thing that surprised me was the hate on Logistics ships.  I was shocked that there was anyone who really had bad things to say about the one ships class that unquestionably requires excellent teamwork to make work.  The argument that they make “small gangs smaller” seemed bizarre.  You know what else makes small gangs smaller?  Incoming DPS you can’t do anything about.  I do think frigate-class logistics ships might be stretching things a bit.  Here’s my suggestion, those new dessies?  They will have a T2 variant.  Make THAT the small logi.  Thank me later.

Damn it Feels Good to be a Gangsta

Two step raised the issue that the massive amount of money in the game has taken a lot of the
meaning out of losses, with players less inclined to defend assets or get mad and take revenge for
losing them.
Two step: “It used to be the case in null sec that you’d have a giant battle, it would hurt, and it
would mean you’re mad at the other guys and want to take revenge. Now it’s like ‘meh I lost my
battle cruiser and who cares?’ The money stuff needs to get looked at. If that means lowering
income across the board…”

And before we all jump on Two step… no one argued.  No one said “Hey there’s thousands of players who aren’t space-rich.  Maybe we should consider the perspective of people who can’t afford to lose 3 or 4 BCs a week” and later on they missed the point again.

Two step was quick to point out that Tech isn’t actually creating any ISK and went on to state that
half a trillion ISK comes into the economy every day, and for every 2 trillion coming in only 1 trillion
is going out. He believes the many faucets this is coming from should be cut back across the board.

Heh.  He’s right.  Tech doesn’t put ISK in the game.  It takes ISK from players who don’t have it and gives it to the ones that have.  This is a wealth transfer from people who are not part of the clique to people who are, and it’s utterly unavoidable.  OTEC’s elite can sit back and roll in isk knowing there will be more until whenever the effective nerfs take hold.  They can provide SRP to keep the minions happy.  People who don’t have access to Tech aren’t likely to get it.  In fact, Bruce Campbell did a PSA on it.

And it’s not the only example of the rich getting richer.  Just the easiest one.  Yes there’s more isk, but there’s also a couple individuals running around with “low single-digit trillions.”  Hey space magnates, throw some at a poor blogger 🙂 I’ll stop saying mean things about your filthy-overly-successful capitalist pig-dog ways.

Just kidding, these guys really do deserve their success in this game.  They have most likely (in their own mind) won EvE.  Certainly they should enjoy things in this game, and if you don’t like it, you can do 1 of 3 things.  Deal with it.  Take it from them.  Quit.

Still this was probably the low point of the CSM.  A bunch of people, many of whom represent folks who aren’t space-rich, nodding together about how bad it is that losses don’t mean anything because everything is so easy for them to replace.


Reading the comments on Corp Management one thing jumped out:

Kelduum then proceeded to give everyone a brief tutorial on how they worked and could be used
to group players by access to a particular station.

Why has this tutorial not been put out by CCP.  Hell I’ll play nice to EvE Uni for a week if they send it to me.

Now roles still need to be fixed.  Badly.  Corp management is a nightmare, and the CSM and CCP seemed to be in agreement, but I didn’t sense a huge priority on this.  As awesome as some of the stuff is, this affects everyone in a player corp, or everyone looking for a player corp.  It needs resolution.  More than just making ethnic relations into merc relations.

Crimewatch:  We got Mugged

I’ve come to admit to myself Greyscale has his uses.  Even more than just as a doorstop.  He shouldn’t design anything that I’d think of as a system, and crimewatch is clearly beyond him.  The change to sentry guns is interesting.  It will certainly change the character of lowsec gatecamps.  I didn’t hear him say anything about reducing the GCC timer.  If the guns will kill a triage carrier by 4 1/2 minutes then the timer doesn’t need to last past 5.  Making entire fights “mutually recognized” might make lowsec much more interesting, but I will be surprised if they come up with an implementation that makes anyone want to use it.  Remote reps will be changed.  They will get a timer, but apparently if you are out can flipping and someone remote reps the miner the repper won’t be agressed?  The system for lesser criminals seems like it’s broken and confusing.  Not a good replacement for the current system which, while broken and confusing to some people, is at least understood by some.

No change on GCC, better Sentry gun mechanics, but much harder to gatecamp.  Not a huge fan.


Null-Sec finally seems to be on firmly in the devs sights.  It might take a while, but EvE players have come to recognize that good expansions take time, and CCP has becomes more effective at communicating.  They won’t take my (Seleene’s) awesome idea, but they’ll find something to fix on and give it a try.  Hopefully they clear the bar set by that excellent Dominion expansion.  If you are looking for it it’s actually underground, they’d have to work to not clear it.

To me, this CSM is doing a great job.  Mittens may have been a fantastic chair, but his presence overwhelmed a lot of the work and felt like a distraction.  The folks that showed demonstrated dedication, and usually perspective and intelligence in their dealings.  I may not agree with everything, and I seriously think that the money problem is a lot more complex than “We have too much money” (looks forlornly at his wallet) but overall I think they’ve done good work, if unexciting, and I really like the format, if not the length, of the new minute system.

I’m using it every time I can

About Corelin

An Eve playing Fool who occasionally writes about the shenanigans he and his minions get up to.

Posted on August 6, 2012, in CCP Hijinx, CSM Hijinks. Bookmark the permalink. 9 Comments.

  1. To me it looks like Trebor, Hans and Seleene are doing a good job of working with CCP to help improve Eve. But I wouldn’t say the CSM is doing a great job. To me it looks more like they’re there to voice the concerns of large alliances from sov null (apart from Trebor and Hans). And CCP can get that without having to organize an election, and then fly the winners to Reykjavik.
    Anyway, based on the Stakeholders section of the minutes the CSM as a function still seems like an afterthought for CCP. I think they should replace it with interviews with Eve bloggers like yourself, Jester, Mabrick, Azual, and representatives of large groups like sov null alliances, Eve-Uni, Red & Blue, etc. CCP could then get some better feedback.

  2. Thanks! That’s one of your best posts, and I had missed it.
    Whenever I hear the following, I know I’m talking to a smart person:
    “Meeting size kills meeting content.”

    • You are talking to a guy who mocked an army-mandated powerpoint briefing for putting 300 guys in one room, then putting up a slide with more than 200 words in it.

  3. I +1 this post, simply for having a Briscoe County Jr presentation. Also another +1 for content. 😉

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