The Holy Trinity of Highsec

I have spent a lot of time in highsec.  I’ve lived there before, I’ll live there again, and I can comfortably consider myself at least a highly informed person when it comes to the highsec population.  I’ve noticed that highsec people tend to be 1 of 3 types.

  1. Alts.  Lots of people have “highsec alts” whether it’s for market games, missioning, spamming Jitamart, whatever.  Highsec alts make up probably 40% of highsec.  They tend to be completely isolated from anyone in highsec as they are talking to others in null… who may also be alting it up in highsec but let’s not get into recursion here.  
  2. Carebears these are people who have chosen to avoid null, avoid low, and avoid wormholes.  These are not nullbears, or WH bears, these are the true Carebears.  They form small, insular groups, which function as “echo chambers” where their own “knowledge” is shared between them gaining more and more weight as they all “hear from someone” that whatever they want to think is true is, in fact, true.  Funny story, we had an infiltrator in a mining corp convinced they could build carriers in highsec to kill the “ebbil piwates” who had savagely smartbombed their mining fleet a few days before.  They very rarely seek any form of outside information and often end up with wild misunderstanding of the rules and even basic mechanics of EvE.

    I’m not just throwing that out there, look at how long it took to get even most of the Incursion community away from missiles.  There’s a few that picked it up fast, but nearly everyone looking to get into Incursions seemed to be trying to bring a Raven or a Drake even with several established websites telling you what to bring that you could Google.

    They make up another 40% of the normal highsec population. They tend to be the least interactive and I tend to be pretty hard on them, but they don’t usually read blogs so meh.

  3. Griefers Hi there.  Seriously though, these tend to be communicative and interactive, and by definition they are reaching outside their circle.  They run the gamut from being brutally sociopathic, seeking only to drive people to the game, to being people who play a game for fun, in a way that occasionally victimizes other people, but also willing to offer a hand back up to those they “dust down” a bit.  They make up 5-10% of the population, but they generate almost all of the multiplayer content accessible to outsiders in highsec.  They may not WANT to be part of the content, but that’s rather the idea of EvE.

I said in the comments of my last post that I was imprecise, and that is possibly the worst thing to be in a blog.  I am perfectly OK with people playing in highsec.  What I really want them doing is creating content for ME.  A highsec player who does nothing but accumulate isk running missions, mining, doing whatever, doesn’t really add value to MY experience.  A griefer potentially does.  Alts have mains, who potentially do.  A carebear?  Meh.  His replacement is a dime a dozen.  The ore he mines will rapidly be acquired by someone else and my prices will stabilize   The isk injected by that mission runner who got horribly ganked will be replaced by another mission runner and the prices will stabilize.  Again I don’t care what you do much, or where you do it.  I care that you bring something to the table, that you contribute to this game, to this community, to me.  If you can do it by moving, great, if you can do it by blogging, great.  If you can do it by doing what you are doing, fantastic, but if you aren’t doing anything for me, why should I give a rats ass about you?

I'm using it every time I can

I’m using it every time I can



About Corelin

An Eve playing Fool who occasionally writes about the shenanigans he and his minions get up to.

Posted on January 25, 2013, in Meta, Politics, PvE, PvP. Bookmark the permalink. 24 Comments.

  1. Seems from what you’re saying is that you expect emergent and interactive game play from players who neither care to participate in the play style you like or the space you wish it to be played in. I’m not sure that could be considered a reasonable expectation.

    I will ask you to consider this – if CCP actively tries to force players out of high sec when they do not wish to do so, they risk losing that casual player or subscriber. The fewer the subscribers, the worse off the game is in the longer term.

  2. You know what they contribute, zippy?

    Subscription money that is then all spent on developing stuff you want completely ignoring what they want.

    Is that to complicated for you? Do you need a diagram, maybe?

  3. Some of those carebears on #2 are harvesting materials and building the ships, fitting and ammos that you are using, they ARE doing something for you. You forgot the grey here, like lots of people do.

  4. I think you miss a reasonable part of high sec in your description : those hat know about game mechanics, that have been to null, low or wh, that have done pvp but choose high sec. Maybe because they don’t have as much time to play anymore, maybe because their alliance failcascaded and want to take time to find a new one or simply because high sec is the most profitable region. I don’t know how many they are but they exist.

    Take that Jita trader with a huge capital (let’s say hundreds of billions of isk). Would you say he is an alt from his main in null ? The core of his gameplay is clearly in high sec.. His alt is in null to do fun pvp !

  5. I think your lumping of group 2 all together is inaccurate. There are plenty of others who live in hisec who do not fit the stereotype of “carebear”, yet who are not either griefers or nullsec alts. Principally these will be folks who do not want to deal with nullsec politics and CTAs and the like, and who want a more casual play environment than low-sec (though they may visit both low and null at various times).

    Also, more carebears read blogs than you think – but they tend not to comment since it is not to the advantage of a industrialist to stick his/her head above the parapet usually (I read someone say once, which rang true, that a ship-pvper likes acclaim whereas the activities of an industrialist can actually be hurt by folks knowing them – as an exterme example look at what happened to Mambrick – I am only bothering becuase I am withdrawing from the game (for non-EVE related reasons)). Unfortunately many hisec dwellers who might be receptive to learning more about other areas of the game very quickly get turned off by the insults strewn their way. I have seen quite a few players just decide to sit in hisec because they got the impression nullsec was populated with nothing but jerks because of the attitudes they encountered in hisec. If the nullsec community actually wants to entice some hisec players out into null, the absolutely first thing that needs to happen is to stop treated hisec players with such despite.

    • Can I have your… never mind.

      I understand Industrialists hiding out. They don’t usually concern me too much, although I think many of them are alts, or as someone else pointed out, mains for people with nullsec alts. There’s a lot more mission runners and the like that concern me. Miners could profitably read blogs to find out things like “Oh Shit there’s hundreds of gankers coming, better tank my ship, hey look Corelin, Poetic AND Jester already did the skull-sweat for me! Time to tank up and go back to watching MLP”

      • Mmm, I know plenty of miners who have never died to a suicide gank, who pay attention to what is going on. The fact that plenty of miners do get ganked means nothing – it is like judging all nullsec on the basis of some failfits one comes across in emails.

  6. Agnar Volta RvB

    Hello there, care to tell me in which category do I fit?

    I’m in RvB, so I do PVP, but only in cruisers, dessies and frigs. I don’t know how to fit a proper BC for PVP and can’t even sit in a BS. My character have around 20 million skill points, my sec status is 1.1 and I’ve been playing for almost 2 years with a couple breaks here in there.

    To make ISK I do exploration, mission running and fitting ships for RvB members. I never have more then 100 million in my wallet at any time.

    Most of my time online is expend helping new people in corp to get their first taste of PVP, most of the time we fight to hull so we can have more and more fights without reshipping.

    Never gank anyone or being concordoken for any reason, I have no interested in blowing up people that can’t shoot back or piss of miners. Never did any trade of manufacturing as I work with spreadsheets all day and don’t want that in my play time.

    I have a few friends in corp but not many as I have a limited time to play and don’t have time to commit with a larger group of people.

    I aspire to move to Low sec one day, but I find all the mechanics, tactics and the life stile daunting and time consuming. I tried in the past to do some exploration in LS and even being use fly in systems where people are hunting me all the time, my ship was destroyed by someone far superior in knowledge and experience than me. We chat a bit after the fact but all the time that I was in LS few people even took the trouble to say something back in Local. I went back some more times, same result in every trip no matter what activities I tried, so I stop going. Seems like the only game play is hunter and prey. Nothing else is really going on.

    I just have a hauler alt that shares room in my account with the main. He helps me to move mods and ships from Jita so I don;t fly a hauler in RvB space. I live in the busiest corner of New Eden, just a couple jumps from Jita, so I see lots of people in local all the time, coming and going or just doing some stuff in a particular system. I like to play in the area because I like to have a lot of people around and something new is always going on as more people means more things are constantly happening. Yesterday I saw a guy in a covops on the Sun, so I invite him to team up if he find any combat site that he couldn’t run or if he need to kill NPCs from a radar for example. He end up finding a 4/10 complex and we split more than 150 mil from the loot.

    You may not give a rats ass for the ones like me that don’t generate content for you, but we are a bit more complex then your categories. You are still thinking in terms of carebears, pirates, gankers, alts… All these are people, minus the bots, that are creating a reality much more complex then what you are seeing.

    No offence, but you wanted to be more precise, as you say in the conclusion of your article, you achieved that, only thing is that your precise model does not help to understand the reality.

    • You are the reason my maths add up to 85-90%. Because their are people in highsec who defy any and all classification. RvB and EvE Uni are a huge portion of that percentage. Honestly you sound to me like someone itching to move on, and if you want recommendations where to go you can evemail me (or half the other regular commenters.

  7. Dracoth Simertet

    “Highsec alts make up probably 40% of highsec”

    Source or GTFO

    • Sure, ask for a source on something you know there aren’t hard and firm stats on.

      I’m going mostly from my own experience across 4 nullsec alliances, most, as in 2/3 or more, players have one (or more) highsec alts that they use regularly.

      • Dracoth Simertet

        Oh in that case then yeah when you don’t have the number just make them up.


      • My number is closer than yours.

      • Dracoth Simertet

        I never posted a number so I’ve really no idea why your saying that your number is closer to mine. I also know there aren’t any figures for this but I’m not going to try and pass one persons experiences off has hard data.

      • Well it’s not like I have any background in gathering information and processing it for an analysis. Well, not more than 5 years of it. And it was presented as my estimate. The reason my number is closer than yours is because opened up and showed my estimate. All you are doing is trying to take a cheap shot and score points. If you have anything to add to the conversation please do so otherwise go back to hiding under your bridge.

      • Dracoth Simertet

        When did calling people out on made up stats become trolling?

        Did I miss a memo?

      • You are calling it a made up stat. I’m calling it an informed estimate based on the available information. You are ignoring that. Hence: Troll.

  8. There’s an old, but outstanding, book titled “How to Win Friends and Influence People” and in it the author surmises that all people are motivated by the “what’s in it for me” mindset. I can certainly say that after my 33 years associated with the US Navy, and leading tens of thousands of sailors, that the author nailed that one.
    You tell your readers what it is you want from carebears as you stated: “What I really want them doing is creating content for ME” and later you state “If you can do it by doing what you are doing, fantastic, but if you aren’t doing anything for me, why should I give a rats ass about you?” Unfortunately you left out the most important point and that is what it is you’re willing to do for them. Remember people are motivated by the “what’s in it for me” mindset and frankly most of them don’t give a rats ass about your needs and wants. The trick here is to figure out how “you” can show carebears what’s in it for them to get involved in: lowsec, nullsec, WHs etc… Good luck.

  9. All these arguments/analysis about Hi-Sec versus Lo/Null keep missing the point. Quit blaming the players and blame CCP. I have played in all but Wormholes and always come back to Hi-Sec, Why you ask ? Because the Game play and Mechanics suck for someone who is casual/busy with real life.
    Here is an example: If join a corp/alliance in Null and I have to step away for real life reasons or I am tired of playing for a month or so guess what happens ? I get booted from said corp/alliance for inactivity or even worse we loose space and all my stuff in locked in systems I no longer have access to. Why do i need that irritation ? Granted in Lo-Sec I can still access all my stuff but that has other mechanics i really hate and have no interest in.
    If CCP designed those areas of interest into something that didn’t take a huge commitment you would see more people traversing those areas all the time. The reality of this is it is much easier to come and go from Hi-Sec than any other area of the game.
    So in-conclusion, Blame the developer for the way they made the areas of the game not the PLAYERS who are doing what is easiest for their lifestyle.

  10. #2 here,
    First of all fuck you,
    2nd fuck you again, I was going to reply ripping this blog apart but everyone elce had that covered.

    This post is pure bs

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