Well Why Aren’t There Raiders, Sapience?

So Sapience, the Community Manager of LotRO has announced that Raiders are less than 5% of the Lord of the Rings population, and probably more like 2-3%.  I’m not sure what exact methodology was used to determine who is a “raider” but the two definitions I would consider most “normal” are: first, someone who has completed a raid, killed the bosses, looted the chest; second, someone who has completed a raid multiple times.  Maybe does things on a regular basis.  The second is what I think of as raiders and I would put this group around 2% of the population at best.  There isn’t a lot of argument that raiders are a small part of the population.  How small is a matter of some question but I’m willing to take Sapience’s numbers at face value.

Here’s the thing.  Sapience is saying they don’t make raids because there aren’t raiders.  He’s saying the root of the problem is the lack of raiders.  That’s not the root.  That’s the trunk.  That’s not the cause, it’s the effect.  Raiding in LotRO is nowhere near where it is in SWTOR or WoW or any other big name game, because the raids suck.  Really Bad.  The SoA raids aren’t terrible but they are dated.  Really really dated.  No one knew what they were doing back then, players or devs and it shows.  The Moria raids were poisoned by the Radiance system and still don’t feel right, although they can be fun they’ve never really worked even after the disaster that was Radiance was removed.  BG and OD were good raids.  In fact they might have represented the golden age of LotRO raiding.  Two worthwhile raids that people could run that justified a gear grind by granting access to good, challenging content.

Then there’s Risengard.  It has the best raid in the game, ToO and the worst in the game, Draigoch.  ToO has not been updated to the level cap and people run it.  It is still fun, and still challenging.  That’s a good raid there.  Draigoch probably killed raiding.  A buggy, confusing, poorly done mess that results in the boss bugging out more than wipe-quits and victories combined.  And it’s still not fixed.

That’s why people don’t raid in LotRO.  For the same reason that EvE players revolted over the lack of iteration.  Because things get left undone and then the outcome gets blamed on the players.  The Rohan raids were more like encounters than raids, they simply didn’t have any grandiose feel to them, and I doubt really affected people’s feelings on raids in either way.

Here’s the thing, Turbine can make great and innovative instances.  School and Library probably have more runs per active player than any instance in any game.  They are that popular, that fast, and that useful to the players.  The Barrows are a lot of fun and the Misty Mountains quests are quite neat.  When it comes to 3 and 6 man content the Turbine staff can go toe to toe with just about anyone.  I’m going to run down the list of instances you can do on level at the current level cap.

  1. Great Barrow (3 Instances, 6 man)
  2. Inn of the Forsaken (3 man)
  3. Seat of the Great Goblin (3 man)
  4. Iorbar’s Peak (3 man)
  5. Webs of the Scuttledells (3)
  6. Bells of the Dale (6)
  7. Fornost (4 instances, 6 man)
  8. Halls of Night (3 man)
  9. Glinghant (6 man)
  10. Ost Elendil (6 man)
  11. Huadh Valandil (6 man)
  12. Library (3 man)
  13. School (3 man)
  14. Sword Hall (3 man)
  15. Dungeons (6 man)
  16. Warg Pens (3 man)
  17. Sammath Gul (6 man)
  18. Lost Temple (6 man)
  19. Sari-Surma (6 man)
  20. Northcotton Farms (3 man)
  21. Stoneheight (3 man)

So 26 choices at level cap.  Twenty Six.  All of them are fun, all of them are worth at least a run through, and some are worth going through on a regular basis for fun and profit!  You can even get rewards for slapping hobbits!

That’s not even counting the Skirmish and (still buggy) big battles.  Both of which can provide an interesting instanced challenge for 1-12 players.  They may not be as intricate as a more traditional instance, but they are an interesting challenge and a big change from the current standard of Dungeons or Open World Quests.

Turbine can do good content, they just haven’t wrapped their heads around traditional raids, and they are blaming the players for it.

I'm using it every time I can

I’m using it every time I can

About Corelin

An Eve playing Fool who occasionally writes about the shenanigans he and his minions get up to.

Posted on July 13, 2014, in LotRO, Things I think I think. Bookmark the permalink. 2 Comments.

  1. Rolling Thunder

    It seems to further the love/hate relationship the gaming community has with the game makers. On one side, Gamers try to min-max and trvialize mechanics that devs work hard to create, then blame the devs for not making interesting fight mechanics. On the other side, Devs look at statistics and say “well people arent really _______ (raiding in this case) so we are not going to burn budget on it.” So the raids that do come out are sub-par.

    • Well in this case its the excuse for not doing raids at all. Because that will improve end game. LotRO is somewhat less min/maxxy than wow or swtor although it does happen. The problem is they don’t do well creating interesting/challenging raid content. There are some culprits I suspect which I plan on writing about having to do with class design and party builds but that’s a bit much for a comment

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