Category Archives: Faction Warfare
So if I’m coming back to EvE I’m doing EvE-lite. I do not have the time or inclination to run a corp or take any sort of leadership role in any alliance or even corporation. I want to PvP but I don’t want to spend forever waiting. I want to jump into a community and have things ready for me. Right now FW is waving a big flag even if Caldari (my normal faction) is a hot mess but right now I don’t mind winning or losing, I mind wasting three hours of my life when I’m newly married, busy at work and generally very limited on my gaming time.
So I’m looking at all kinds of nasty frigates and AFs and Ewar frigates. I’ve got an app in for a corp and we will see where I go once the Fancy Hat is gone.
Partial transcript from the final meeting before the Caldari Tier V push (roughly, with apologies to Mjolnir Gost, Mord Fiddle, and Billy the Bard)
- Mjolnir Gost: O that we now had here
But one ten thousand of those men in Jita
That do no pvp to-day!
- Corelin: What’s he that wishes so?
My lord Mjolnir? No, my dread leader:
If we are mark’d to die, we are enow
To do our militia loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of LP loot.
God’s will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Chribba, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires:
But if it be a sin to covet LP loot,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from Jita:
God’s peace! I would not lose so great an LP loot share
As one man more, methinks, would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Mjolnir, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; we’ll kick him from alliance
And jeer and grief him out of militia:
We would not share our LP loot with he
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
More paraphrasing. Interpretationally. But I think I get the point across. LP dumps require a lot of people working together. The downside of this is a lot of people are out there spending LP all at once so the markets tend to look like a scenic landscape. Namely a cliff. I know, I know, it’s crocodile tears, I stand to make well over 9500 isk / LP and if the markets rebound a bit over the next few days it will be more than 10000. Either way I’ll be quite happy.
There is a problem however. One of the items I was looking at was trading at 201/191k isk the morning of the dump. Last I checked it was at 130/110k. While either one represents a simply MASSIVE amount of isk for me, especially considering the effort involved, it’s rather disheartening. The boom and bust of FW LP store items can be astounding, and it all ties in to the factors in FW that have already been discussed to death. There’s no incentive to D-plex. Holding higher tiers in systems, especially non-station systems is so hard relative to the reward involved that it’s a joke. Rebuilding warzone control from 1 to 5 can be done in minutes if you control enough systems. Having possession of systems is more important than their upgrade status by far, and really the ideal state of possession is “held by the opposing faction but so deep in “VULNERABLE” that they could d-plex it for a week and not bring it up. All it takes is a bunker bust and the thing flops the next downtime.
This is why, when someone asked how to quit militia in militia chat I just told him and waved him out the door. I don’t want him here, farming LP and glutting up the market. I don’t want him sharing in the profits, be it LP or Honor. I don’t want him running around potentially busting up opsec and spilling the beans on our plans. I want my isk even if it means being the most offending man alive. That’s not really a good thing. There’s plenty of new folks wanting to get into faction warfare, but the sense among the vets is “If you are young you are a spai” or “oh great another button orbiting noob bringing an abomination to fleets.” Neither of these are good things of course, but not being willing to help new players breaks down part of the fabric of EvE; and I didn’t mention the real reason these guys never get a chance.
The real chance is:
God’s peace! I would not lose so great an LP loot share
As one man more, methinks, would share from me
Fly dangerous. Watch out for the fucking Incursion rats popping frigates in low.
Hieronymus Karl Frederick, Baron von Munchausen: Gentlemen, don’t you think it would be a good idea to silence those enemy cannons?
Bored Soldier: No sir
BS: It’s wednesday
HKFBvM: (disgusted) oh… wednesday
Retaining large-scale control of a warzone doesn’t seem particularly advantageous. Having it at one moment is, especially if you know when that moment will be and can cash in your LP. Keeping it is a chore and a bother. Control of individual systems might make some difference tactically, allowing one side or another to dock up and base out of one system at need. The LP benefit is tremendous, but doesn’t require sustained control to be used. The rest of the benefits are such a joke that they might as well not exist.
For most of the story of Adventures of Baron von Munchausen, the Baron, an idealistic old man, is opposed by the Right Ordinary Horatio Jackson, a “realist” who doesn’t see the point of fighting a war with heroism and extreme efforts, but rather an intensely organized “rational” method that seems limp and uninspiring. Jackson would LOVE faction warfare.
The good Baron would be dashing from one endangered system to the next, chasing out plexers and running defensive complexes, holding the line against the invading Turk. He sees the adventure and need to control the area, defend the space of his militia.
Jackson would be planning one day blitzes, seizing control of the warzone in one day of supreme effort, coordinating efforts to drive warzone control as high as possible to cash in the LP they farm over the rest of the week. The other side would of course do the same thing. Possibly even coordinating days to do these activities to prevent working at cross purposes.
There’s two reasons for the lack of desire for defense. The first is the fact that you don’t need to hold the space for any sustained period of time. The second is the difficulty in holding a system. You have to run twice as many sites as the attacker and get no benefit other than retaining their current benefits, which they likely don’t need as they’ve already cashed in their LP. Rather than defend space to hold benefits they cannot utilize because they’ve burned out their LP, which can’t be replenished on defense except slowly through kills. EvE players tend to be rational creatures. They want rewards for their actions. There’s far more Horatio Jacksons than Baron von Munchausen, and if CCP wants to see things tilt the other way they need a reason. Players need a reason for a crazy man on a horse to charge out screaming:
HFKBvM: They’re inviting us to defeat them! We must oblige them!”
Right Ordinary Horatio Jackson: Ah, the officer who risked his life by singlehandedly destroying…
Functionary: [whispering in his ear] Six.
ROHJ: *Six* enemy cannon and rescuing…
ROHJ: Ten of our men held captive by The Turk.
Sting (I’m not kidding): Yes, sir.
ROHJ: The officer about whom we’ve heard so much.
Sting: I suppose so, sir.
ROHJ: Always taking risks far beyond the call of duty.
Sting : I only did my best, sir.
ROHJ: Have him executed at once.
Soldier: Yes, sir. Come along.
ROHJ: This sort of behavior is demoralizing for the ordinary soldiers and citizens who are trying to lead normal, simple, unexceptional lives. I think things are difficult enough as it is without these emotional people rocking the boat.
Because right now there’s often a sentiment of “let ’em take the system. We’ll just take it back and profit from it!” and while that may be the logical solution in EvE, it doesn’t make much sense.
Soo with the new update to Faction Warfare CCP has decided that all the rewards will go to the attacker. The incentive to defend is to not get locked out of stations in systems and to maintain your current LP store standing, oh and hold onto those extra R&D slots you installed in the stations in that lowsec system you carried your BPOs to.
You don’t get LP, you don’t get much, if any standing, and per Susan Black who I trust to know a little more about FW than I do, you gain less System Control % for defending a plex than an attacker does for attacking it. That means that in the time it takes me to run the 300 odd systems to regain full control of a system, I could have taken over 2 systems and gained the additional LP store bonus for total control of the whole thing. Never mind the PvP aspect, which is ostensibly what the whole FW system is about.
This creates a situation somewhat similar to Castle swapping in WoW or the Ilum dailies in SWTOR. The biggest difference is that there is at least a modicum of a reason to protect a system. 2 in fact. 1 so you can dock up, which people don’t worry about because they can base safely in highsec anyway, and 2 you maintain your overall control. The system itself just doesn’t have much importance unless you happen to have stuff in station in it. Even maintaining overall control seems dubious. I could maintain control of one system, or I could lose it, and use the effort I would have spent regaining control of that system to take 2 other systems, one to make up for the one I lost, and 1 to put me ahead.
This assumes you have systems you can take of course, but here’s the catch, if I’m a plexer, and if there’s no systems I can take, I WANT YOU TO TAKE SYSTEMS. I get no further reward for being great, and while there may be phenominal discounts at the LP store, it’s hard to take advantage of them without LP.
Defenders need rewards, attackers should get higher rewards, but defense should get something. If a General told you “Hey look, Mexico invaded. We lost San Antonio, Houston, Austin and Dallas, but we took Mexico City, Tijuana, Mexicali, Tampico, Cancun, Cozumel, Santa Sosalina, AND La Paz, we’re WAY ahead on points!” you’d smile at him, shake his hand and go call for the guys with the hug-me jackets. That’s a ridiculously stupid way to fight a war, but that’s what CCP is motivating pilots to do. If the Caldari give up on Manjonakk and instead capture Ashitsu and Enaluri, they’ve come out way ahead on LP and on standings.
Of course there is something of a counter to this. People that want PvP tend to want fights they have a degree of confidence in. They want to get the easy kills and have time to plan if something nasty shows up. This means that the hardcore PvPers have incentive to hang around systems that need defense. They can score some easy kills picking off the odd Plexer hunting easy LP, and earning a few LP themselves.
Defense needs rewards, defense wins championships and without some tangible reward for defense, there doesn’t seem to be a way to get anyone motivated to do more than shoot people trying to run plexes.
I haven’t been in-game too much but I’ve noticed a few things about Faction Warfare that have amused me in the realm of “Unintended Consequences”
The reaction of incoming players to the possibility of losing their stuff to losing the system has largely been “Well fine we’ll base in hisec”
Defensive plexing is necessary to keep control of systems, but doesn’t give you any notable benefit. No LP, just a drop in the contested status of the system. Makes it harder to lose your LP rewards I guess.
Faction Police seem to be able to catch a freighter on a good day. Anything smaller blows by them. Seriously have you seen Loren Galen’s killboard?
PvP is of course as exciting as ever. cricket… cricket… I need to get on and find a fleet that’s going to pick a fight.
Also about to pick up recruiting. Warning any spies we discover in corp will be jettisoned in a can outside Jita 4-4 with the self-destruct disabled and Gilbert Gottfried reading local.
Since the first couple of week of Hulkageddon, Fancy Hats has been rather dull. Star and I, with the help of Orakkus were mostly busy getting every door to nullsec slammed in our faces one way or another. There just isn’t much many nullsec alliances think a corp under 20 (or 50) members can offer no matter what they do.
We considered wardecs, briefly, we considered wormholes, a little more seriously, we even talked very briefly about breaking up the band. We talked about how to build our membership, we talked about how to make ourselves more interesting and attractive to the kind of players we want to bring into Fancy Hats. We talked a lot, we plotted we planned. We finally came down to Faction Warfare, and not without some serious discussion as there are consequences to it. Yes that “C” word that is EvE’s triumph and tragedy.
Faction Warfare immediately restricts you to “safely” operating in half of highsec, with the other half now infested with nasty hostile NPCs and even meaner players, who can even operate with some success in your “safe” zone just look at Loren Gallen’s killboard to see the kinds of things people do in space where Faction Police “Chase” them.
You can play FW without tanking your standings with the opposing faction, but I doubt most of my guys will really be able to do that. We have taken steps to protect ourselves by giving ourselves a “buffer” but again, there’s limits. In reality we will most likely have most of our guys locked out of Gallente space and possibly Minmatar as well. This isn’t a minor consideration, although it’s also not as big as it would have been when we considered wardecs a viable strategy.
We also looked at the various factions. Gallente was out immediately. We simply don’t have the resources to lock our less capable players out of Jitamart, even if we could latch onto an alliance with a logistical tail. Minmatar was out for the same reason for all the kinda-friendly contacts we have there. This left Amarr and Caldari.
Amarr had practically nothing going for it at the point we started our preparation. They looked like a disorganized mess on a good day and were close to being chased out of lowsec altogether. FWEDDIT has certainly inspired a culture change in Amarr that has them fighting more actively and successfully, but even with this change, I don’t want to enter an unsettled situation. Fancy Hats hasn’t prospered in those circumstances, we really are too fragile a tree to withstand a storm like that.
Caldari wasn’t a whole lot more impressive to be honest. We had very casual contacts who were rejoining the fight, which was helpful, but there were still some pretty negative indicators, especially when it came to the pretty blatant plex-farming indicated by the stats. All the same they were the best choice for us.
FOR THE STATE!
Having made the decision we did what we probably do best. Short-term, operational level planning. We had numerous people come back from stints out of game spanning between weeks to over a year for one gent, so getting them all on the same page has taken some effort and my officers have done a lot of work helping people get ready.
Meanwhile we have to decide how we will screen recruits, as FW is a bit nasty when it comes to spais and such. We expect to have a lot of rust to blow off the old warp scrams as well. I suspect the Gallente will fight back a bit harder than the Hulks did. We plan on flying cheap for a while, no point getting back into rhythm in really expensive ships when we are far more likely to win eggs than see lot of big blue booms for a while.
The main objectives we have are to have fun. This game is fun goddamnit!
put up good numbers, especially as we get used to working together again, and build ourselves up so that when we want to move on we can pick our destination and not scrabble for scraps like beggars outside a church.